looking for alittle more power

[staunch_vt]

hey guys and gals looking to spend some $ on some performance parts for the engine.i got around a grand to do so.the engine is stock series 1 v6 ecotec engine except for pacemaker extractors and 2 and 1/2 inch exhaust,cold air intake.any input would be much appriciated.

[Darren]

mmm... that's a bit of a tough one.
if you hadn't already done the exhaust, CAI etc, then that's what I would have suggested. Would have fairly much covered your $1000 plus maybe a bit.

unfortunately beyond those mods, it starts costing a lot more. Some may suggest a larger throttle body etc, but personally I think most of the perceived improvement in performance is just that, perceived. I don't believe it's going to gain you any noticeable benefits on basically a stock engine, I've yet to see any dyno comparisons which indicate there is any actual gains on a near stock engine. But some people believe they make a difference, so it depends who you talk to I guess.

Maybe a set of high ratio rockers ? I think you can also buy a manifold spacer from MACE, which is supposed to give you a few extra ponies. I don't think they are overly expensive either. Probably could look at a Kalmaker tune to make the best of any mods you have done. If you plan on sticking to 98ron fuel, the tuner may be able to give the engine a little more ignition advance

Have a chat to our club sponsor Mace Engineering, they specialise in V6 go fast bits. There is a thread here http://www.brisbanecommodore.com/bccc/showthread.php?t=1201 that mentions some of the performance upgrade parts they have to offer for the V6

[EQUIPE-T]

yeh darren thats what i was going to say, head to Mace an go nuts, having a V6 emotec ahh ecoshit ahh crap! ecotec! myself best thing to go for after a set of paccies and exhaust would be a nice cam an chip package and a set of new rockers

[EQUIPE-T]

then if your really serious about power build the motor for boost and supercharge/turbo it

[OMR346]

He said he has around a grand to do so. The mods your talking about (Pete) would be well over his budget.

As Darren suggested, see Mace for a set of 1.9:1 high lift roller rockers. And depending on how much they are, one of those insulater things might be a good idea aswell. I havnt used one of them myself, but u have heard they are ment to work alright (depending on who you talk to of course)

[EQUIPE-T]

He said he has around a grand to do so. The mods your talking about (Pete) would be well over his budget.

As Darren suggested, see Mace for a set of 1.9:1 high lift roller rockers. And depending on how much they are, one of those insulater things might be a good idea aswell. I havnt used one of them myself, but u have heard they are ment to work alright (depending on who you talk to of course)

duuuh reeally? :p thats why i said "then if you really serious about power", who the hell would wanna spend more than a grand on a V6 anyway.......... oh wait that'd be me :sweating:

[Darren]

Pete you just need to pull yer finger out ya ass and replace that leaky intake manifold gasket then your VS will plant you back in the seat and you might also get better fuel economy than a Detroit ;)

[EQUIPE-T]

Pete you just need to pull yer finger out ya ass and replace that leaky intake manifold gasket then your VS will plant you back in the seat and you might also get better fuel economy than a Detroit ;)

pffft why would i wanna do that? sounds like i have a fully sik turbo yo :p hahaha, should get off my arse one day an do it, but eh, have lost interest in it lol

[OMR346]

duuuh reeally? :p thats why i said "then if you really serious about power", who the hell would wanna spend more than a grand on a V6 anyway.......... oh wait that'd be me :sweating:

hahaha Yes you would be stupid enough to do a thing like that :p

I was referring to the other post though. A cam and chip package would cost over $1k, let alone the new rockers to go with it.

[EQUIPE-T]

hahaha Yes you would be stupid enough to do a thing like that :p

I was referring to the other post though. A cam and chip package would cost over $1k, let alone the new rockers to go with it.

depends who you speak to :p lol got the cam an chip package for the VN for $270 lol, new rockers cost me a carton hehe, and all that off ebay.... and it still drove :eek: ( motor is actually still going today haha )

[staunch_vt]

i was thinkin of starting of with a 25mm cold air intake manifold and a set of 1.9:1 high ratio roller rockers and a crow cam for the high ratio rockers.just looked up mace and they seem to be good prices.what sort of power gain would i be lookin around to gain with these mods.

[Darren]

just be aware that the list of mods you mentioned are going to blow out your $1000 budget rather significantly. Depends how much of the work you do yourself, but you are probably looking at closer to $2000, especially when you add a tune to that (which will be necessary if you upgrade the cam). The V6 has roller lifters, but factor in the possibility of replacing lifters with the cam if the lifters are worn.

You'll probably have to be fairly conservative when you choose a camshaft, if you are sticking with a standard compression ratio. If you go too big, on stock compression, you will probably loose power and driveability. So make sure you do your research on that one carefully.

I'm not really much of an expert on V6's mate, one of the V6 boys here might have a more accurate idea, so don't take what I say as gospel by any means, but I'd imagine with those mods, including a mild cam, you could probably expect around a 30-50rwhp gain ??

[V8 Calais]

I honestly wouldn't bother doing anything else too it, sorry to sound negative but the power gains from these mods aren't that significant and the cam / rockers etc setup will cost over $1k easily without a doubt.

The power gains would be noticable but nothing significant I would imagine.

If it was me well id get a V8 LOL or another option maybe look into buying a L67 factory supercharged engine, I see them floating around pretty cheap sometimes. Could put a front mount cooler on it, up the boost and away you go.

Either that or as said look into a turbo / supercharger

Prices:
Camshaft - $550.00
Roller Rockers - $495
Subtotal $1045 already...then add price of installation and as darren said Lifters (new cam I always fit new lifters thats just me but) and a tune.

[Darren]

I agree with Strati in regards to justifying the cost. If I were you, I'd talk to Mace Engineering about their plenum spacers/insulators, ask what sort of results to expect. I'd imagine though you'd maybe pick up maybe 5kw or so. Nothing huge. Maybe a tune on top of that to optimise the setup you have.

Beyond that, if I were you & wanted to stay with a V6, I'd take Strati's advice and go for L67 supercharged V6 out of a VT. You could probably pick one up these days for a fairly good deal, and it would probably make about the same power standard as your current V6 with a cam etc. And then there are cheap upgrades for these engines, like a smaller pulley to increase boost etc.

there is another member here 180SC who has dropped a L67 into his VH wagon, he might be able to give you a bit of feedback as well.

food for thought anyway

[EQUIPE-T]

its pretty hard to extract power out of a V6 at the best of time ( i mean my series 2 buick V6 in the vn, had stage 2 came and reprogramable chip, full ACL rebuild kit, YT heads with rockers, VT 5ltr throttle body with port matched elbow an so forth, new pistons and rods ect ect ect and still only managed to get it from 175hp to 260ish and that was $5000 gone lol ) quick fix is a supercharger, best bang for the buck i think

[V8 Calais]

^ I take it you mean engine HP there.
Did you get it on a chassis dyno at all?

[EQUIPE-T]

^ I take it you mean engine HP there.
Did you get it on a chassis dyno at all?

yeh engine was dynoed while out of the car when being built, didnt get a chance to put it on the dyno thou

[newsyk06vr2.0]

i got my L67 supercharged V6 last week, and the smile is still on my face
and its only stock.



a Grand will get you a 11.5 psi pully and roller rockers with change left over.
those 2 alone will make a big difference in power on an L67.

then if u want to go wild, you could get a front mount and run to 20psi if not higher.




http://www.brisbanecommodore.com/bccc/showthread.php?t=2389
^^^^ my vt.

[LuxoBarge]

IMO, the $1000 you have now, bank it and save up some extra $$$. Start hunting around and even have a look on eBay for a s/c L67 and trans. Once ya get that you will have many more options.
If the money is burning a hole in your pocket, I would go the lifters and a tune. I do believe that some places are able to do mafless tunes for ecotecs now, but don't quote me on that... Another thing you could do is change your diff... A second hand 3.45 diff will give you more off the line "punch" and they aren't too badly priced from the right places. (and easy to change too).

[EQUIPE-T]

just a few i found on ebay, plenty more out there thou

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VT-VX-VU-WH-V6-3-8-L67-SUPERCHARGED-ECOTEC-ENGINE-COMES-/260729215878?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb4ac1b86#ht_3198wt_881

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Super-Charged-Ecotech-Engine-Conversion-L67-Holden-/320647182536?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aa80fb8c8#ht_2111wt_953

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Holden-Commodore-VS-VT-VX-VY-L67-Supercharged-V6-Engine-/190516446701?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5baa45ed#ht_859wt_881

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/WH-STATESMAN-SUPERCHARGED-V6-L67-VS-VT-VX-HSV-3-8L-/250796037843?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a649bd6d3#ht_1506wt_881

[Josh K]

i know of a guy with a vu v6 ute and hes got the MACE plennum and manifold spacers and the MACE hi ratio rockers and it goo pritty hard for a v6. Mace engineering is deffinatly the place to go for ecotec mods......

just my 2 cents

[stealthvn/mr vr ss]

or save some coin and go raptor supercharger or turbo setup

[Josh K]

Yeh raptor chargers r good and the kit comes with everything u need and its DIY lol

[stealthvn/mr vr ss]

Yeh raptor chargers r good and the kit comes with everything u need and its DIY lol

Yep i have installed a couple now easy fitting and massive difference

[Josh K]

yeh i was gunna do a stroker raptor blown ecotec in my old vs ute but sold that in favour of the clubby lol

[stealthvn/mr vr ss]

Yea i miss my clubby already, but atleast this ss keeps me buisy

[Josh K]

yeh and its something u can work on relitively easily lol

[pvk308]

Strati is dead on the money with what hes been saying.... My 2 cents worth is there is no point having high ratio rockers if your not going to make full use of them with a big ass cam and with that then comes strengthening your engine new lifters etc plus a converter to suit and if required diff gears as well so thats well over the 1k budget you have. The same goes for supercharging great choice makes great hp but again your going to need a cam and im sorry to get the most out of your engine the converter will need doing to suit plus diff gears i have seen to many guys build motors and neglect the rest only to say there not happy or they expected more..... my advice start looking at what you want to do ie street drive, cruise, race etc then look at how much its going to cost you to do that and any DESCENT engine builder will tell you what you do to the motor needs to be done to the box and the dif as well to get the most from any given combo. Once you have an idea then save some dollars that you have been quoted then SAVE MORE if you can mate becuase there will always be extra costs good luck mate

[OMR346]

Dont bother with the L67 either. If your going to spend that sort of coin, then throw on a GT35/40 turbo. You could get away with the whole set up for around $4k, if need be. Its been done many times before, and will walk away from 95% of the L67's out there.

[pvk308]

Dont bother with the L67 either. If your going to spend that sort of coin, then throw on a GT35/40 turbo. You could get away with the whole set up for around $4k, if need be. Its been done many times before, and will walk away from 95% of the L67's out there.


I would agree with that as well mate add a front mount power is just a throw away the rest of the car will need doing as well the only problem though is it will need to be mod tagged and meet emissions where as the l67 does that already

[OMR346]

The L67 will still need to be blue plated. And emissions??? What is this thing you speak of lol

Yea the gearbox will need to be built to handle the power and torque. Although with a turbo set up, a standard box will last longer then it will with a big aspirated set up, or even a blower, as the turbo comes on to power alot more gentle then the other set ups. This is why there are a fair few people with turbo conversions done and still running a standard box. Although I would recommend a full built box, if auto, and a T56 conversion if manual.

Diff will be fine, but would benefit from some shorter gearing (3.45:1 would be best with a turbo set up for street use, in my opinion) and a KAAZ LSD would go well as well. I run a KAAZ in my SSZ and it is great. Not cheap, but it is very consistent and never misses a beat.

And of course with any set up, a good free flowing exhaust system would be needed, as well as a decent tune, and fuel system (in the case of forced induction) as well.

[OMR346]

Why do we have to pick such a god dam expensive hobby lol

[pvk308]

hehehehehe emisions the plague of everybody you are riight the l67 will need a tag but would be alot easier than the turbo route

[stealthvn/mr vr ss]

It would prob b cheaper to just trade in for one already in it or v8 lol

[OMR346]

It would prob b cheaper to just trade in for one already in it or v8 lol

^^^ This...

[pvk308]

i would agree with these two guys but if your on your P licence ( not sure here mate so dont take offence) then thats out of the questiuon and really modfiying the six is as well any police officer who suspects you have modified your car can have you over the pits and im sorry any cam change you do etc etc that is not factory will not meet emissions and your up the creek with out a paddle however if your lucky enough not to be under the p plate laws go the eight it will be enough for the time being until you want more

[staunch_vt]

was thinkin of gettin this for me vt to giver it abit of a freshen.not really concernd about power gain but would there be any?.

Reconditioned holden commodore ecotec heads suit vs-vx

they have been

cleaned

crack tested, presure tested

seats cut 3way angle on serdi

faced valves

adjust valve heights

surfaced the heads

reasembled with new valve stem seals fitted

heat tabed and wrapped up ready to bolt straight on

[EQUIPE-T]

was thinkin of gettin this for me vt to giver it abit of a freshen.not really concernd about power gain but would there be any?.

Reconditioned holden commodore ecotec heads suit vs-vx

they have been

cleaned

crack tested, presure tested

seats cut 3way angle on serdi

faced valves

adjust valve heights

surfaced the heads

reasembled with new valve stem seals fitted

heat tabed and wrapped up ready to bolt straight on

how much for that?, i have an anoying rocker tick in mine ( start it up and it sounds like its going to blow up when its cold lol ) might look at this instead of just replacing the rockers

[pvk308]

with a stock cam i wouldnt expect much at all mate the 3 angle valve seat will just improve flow into the chamber and out etc to get the most of the heads and the 3 angle seat the ports would need to be modfied on a flow bench to get the most flow out of them at a given lift but to do that your looking at easy 1000k plus even for v6 heads crap my vn heads cost me well over 2500 k each and that was without valves seals etc and they are only midly done the other thing is i know there is more in my heads the price you pay for HP and for someone who knows how to do them properly

[V8 Calais]

Thats probably not rockers pete thats probably a stuffed lifter, so new rockers won't fix that. Check the rockers aren't loose if you suspect its that.

[EQUIPE-T]

Thats probably not rockers pete thats probably a stuffed lifter, so new rockers won't fix that. Check the rockers aren't loose if you suspect its that.

eh its one of em, takes effort to investigate it lol

[180SC]

I would agree with that as well mate add a front mount power is just a throw away the rest of the car will need doing as well the only problem though is it will need to be mod tagged and meet emissions where as the l67 does that already

Qld we dont worry about emissions if it has all standard emossion controls it will pass just the same as an l67 would. but to run the turbo pumba suggests he would need a built engine which then brings his 4k up to around 10k.
now before anyone says why waste that money on a v6 i know of a very fast vt with a turbo 6 that runs 9 second 1/4 mile and puts out 513rwkw still street registered and driven on the road..

[180SC]

On topic i would consider doing a cam and chip which cam be had from crow for $1150 but remeber to ad to that gaskets and lifters which would set you back around the 4-500 mark. doing that now will make current and future mods work better.

[pvk308]

Qld we dont worry about emissions if it has all standard emossion controls it will pass just the same as an l67 would. but to run the turbo pumba suggests he would need a built engine which then brings his 4k up to around 10k.
now before anyone says why waste that money on a v6 i know of a very fast vt with a turbo 6 that runs 9 second 1/4 mile and puts out 513rwkw still street registered and driven on the road..


the engine you put into a car the car then has to meet the emissions of that engine so if you put an l67 in a vb say then the vb has to meet the requirements of the new engine eg charcol cannisters etc etc hence the reason for emissions and trust me im having to get a vk to pass both noise and emissions with a race motor can be done but requires alot of work

[EQUIPE-T]

now before anyone says why waste that money on a v6 i know of a very fast vt with a turbo 6 that runs 9 second 1/4 mile and puts out 513rwkw still street registered and driven on the road..

yeh V6's can be good little powerplants, and powerful if your willing to chuck money at it ( in this case most people dont see the sence and go a 5ltr instead at a lesser cost for more power ), C.O.M.E racing do a stroker turbo V6's
4.2 litre Ecotec BOOST stroker long motor...these long motors are our most popular Ecotec engine by far. They are fitted with our best boost stroker bottom end with low compression boost forged pistons, "H" beam rods and your choice of nodular cast iron crank (up to 20psi boost) or our billet 4340 steel crank for unlimited or endurance applications. They have the same ST3 fully ported heads, "O" ringed block decks, copper head gaskets and fully optimised cam profile from our range to best suit your exact application. This long motor outright less ancillaries but including our new Twin Throttle Body intake is...$10,500.00. The same engine including dyno run in normally aspirated only, so it has some run time on it before boost setups are fitted and tuned, is $11,500.00 The same engine UNASSEMBLED is $9500.00 NOTE: No ancillaries as per the above # 1 engine are included. Add...$1000.00 to any of the above prices for the inclusion of our billet steel crank to replace the cast crank. aparently these motors are good for 600hp at the motor, 700 with a larger turbo and some different internal mods

always comes back to thou how much your willing to spend on it lol

[CalaisRider]

Umm, getting 600hp out of a V6 could be very, very spensive - or maybe I have read the thread and intent wrong.

I don't even get 600hp out of my L98 six litre. Geese one would have to question the longevity of such horn power machines if they were worked hard to their real limits - a short stab such as the drag strip may be fine.

[pvk308]

it is very expensive not only in parts turbo mapping but also machining not a cheap thing to do

[V8 Calais]

You can make any engine 4,6,8,10,12 cyclinder whatever make big power...it comes down to $$$ thats all thats stopping you...Most peoples goals for street cars is best HP for $ ratio. Sure he could build a 600hp V6 for a street car but the cost of it would be huge.

[stealthvn/mr vr ss]

You can make any engine 4,6,8,10,12 cyclinder whatever make big power...it comes down to $$$ thats all thats stopping you...Most peoples goals for street cars is best HP for $ ratio. Sure he could build a 600hp V6 for a street car but the cost of it would be huge.

Could just buy a new car imported with that much power from factory for that coin but end of day comes down to personal preference

[V8 Calais]

^ Exactly...

[staunch_vt]

cheers for the info and comments guys.gonna get it blown.1 more question how much would i be looking at to get all 4 springs changed to king spring super low springs by a mechanic.i dont really want to play around and give it ago myself not to sure what to do with changing springs.if anyone can also lead me to a good mechanic in the brissy area it would help out even more.

[staunch_vt]

i've already got the springs i'm just talkin labour wise.

[EQUIPE-T]

its pretty easy to do yaself if your mechanically minded, i lowered my VS in about 2hrs ( front and rear spring change, 4 shockies change, adjustable panhard bar change ) longest part was the front ( 1 seal unit, need spring compressors and a rattlegun to get them apart ) might be worth investing in some new front strut tops and bearings, as these chew out fairly fast in commodores ( cause rough steering, wheel alignment issues an so forth ) if ya not confident about doing it yourself take it Pedders Lawnton, awesome workmanship with them, a few members here have used them to

good luck

[V8 Calais]

My mate is a mechanic on the northside, can do you a good deal on installing them.

[OMR346]

Trev, you wouldnt need a built motor with a GT3540. There are many turbo Ecotec (and Buick V6's aswell) running turbo set ups and they arnt having any issues.

Take Damo's (Commotion) VT for example. Bog stock motor, GT3540, front mount cooler, manual, and he has spun 375rwhp and ran 12.6, from memory. That is all on a stock motor, and he has had it going for a long time. I havnt spoken to him for a while, but last time we spoke, he was talking about more boost and Nitrous lol.

[stealthvn/mr vr ss]

Trev, you wouldnt need a built motor with a GT3540. There are many turbo Ecotec (and Buick V6's aswell) running turbo set ups and they arnt having any issues.

Take Damo's (Commotion) VT for example. Bog stock motor, GT3540, front mount cooler, manual, and he has spun 375rwhp and ran 12.6, from memory. That is all on a stock motor, and he has had it going for a long time. I havnt spoken to him for a while, but last time we spoke, he was talking about more boost and Nitrous lol.

12.6 and wheel spin too

[OMR346]

The joys of a manual on the drag strip lol

He took me for a strap in it when he first done the manual conversion, and fuck me did it go hard. Once it came on to boost, it pulls you hard back in to the seat. Very impressive for what it is.