Pacemaker Extractors

[Carbon]

Am buying some Pacemaker headers but dont know what to buy

Most have said to buy 4 into 1's. This means the added expense of cats (approx $600). Others have said that the short tri-y's that bolt up to the original cats will be fine.

One performance shop told me if it was their car they would put the 4 into 1's in but the difference over the short tri-y's were only marginal. He didn't say if this was performance or sound wise.

Any thoughts ideas or suggestions would be great

[Darren]

I haven't had a lot of experience with the LS engines, but general rule of thumb is 4 into 1 will give you better top end at the expense of some low-mid range power.

tri-Y's typically offer a wider power range, but may not perform quite as well as the 4 into 1 at the top end

[Carbon]

I am after something that is more of a practical increase. Around town on some cruises etc. I dont race mine or race it at the drags. Based on your comments then the tri-y's will be fine. Save me $600

[Mark]

G'day Adam, I went with ceramic coated tri'ys on mine. I'm not planning on going with any huge power mods so I thought they were a good each way bet for a wider power range..Mal (mr muffler) did my full exh. extractors, cats and catback..
Cheers
Mark

[Carbon]

Mark

Cheers. This is where it gets confusing. There is 3 types I can get. The short ones the that bolt up to existing cats, the slightly longer ones which need new cats or modified existing and then the 4 into 1's which definitely need new cats. Mal told me to get 4 into 1's but Pacemaker themselves told me just to get the short ones and bolt them up to the existing cats. Dont know if spending the extra on ceramic coated is warranted either.

[Mark]

Mark

Cheers. This is where it gets confusing. There is 3 types I can get. The short ones the that bolt up to existing cats, the slightly longer ones which need new cats or modified existing and then the 4 into 1's which definitely need new cats. Mal told me to get 4 into 1's but Pacemaker themselves told me just to get the short ones and bolt them up to the existing cats. Dont know if spending the extra on ceramic coated is warranted either.

lol, you do have a dilema..I guess sometimes too much information can be a problem in as far as working out whats right for you. I imagine the amount of coin also comes into the equation. I take your point on ceramic coating, it's a good few more dollars more and for how much benefit you get, I don't know..They look good though...lol..Good luck with it, let us know which way you go.
Cheers

[CalaisRider]

Hi Adam

My first set of headers were Pacies - shorties. This was in the very early days of October 2006 when shops were still trying to build headers for VEs. All worked quite well on mine - I was going DiFillipo but they didn't have a set built in time for me - Darren was great in trying to meet my need though..

As I understand it the shorties will help with the torque midrange aspect, and tuned length will assist at the mid to top end. Bottom line is that its much like a Cam - low/mod numbers will see gains in both Torque and Power, big end cams cut in much higher in the rev range and are great for improving big gains in HP figures - in my experience its always a trade off.. Thats why I'm trialling the ISKY Cam for Hi Torque, it's got huge lift in comparison to Comp Cams and others (not been in any of the Hi Torque cars to date and is new to the market) - should see a balance of low grunt and high end power in one package..

Whilst you may not do circuit or strip stuff, don't under-estimate that much of your drives are in the mid to high end rpm.

I gave away my original Ceramic Coated Pacemaker Shorties to Voodoo (Stu) a few mths ago.

I changed to tuned length headers when I changed over sorst system to a "Stainless" F1 with Hi Flow Cats (all my stuff to date has been through Mr Muffler Sumner Park)... For my application I would happily go Tuned length again - but then again I have upped the diff ratio from 2.92 up to 3.7, so launch and responsiveness is reasonably good and offsets some of the potential low/midrange sluggishness. ATM it spins, 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear with the power robbing Auto in tow- but thats with the recent gain of 60 odd rwkw power through the cam change.

Adam, I sincerely don't think you would even notice the difference between the two Header types. Unless you gain big HP, I personally find it hard to "feel" much variance, but the Dyno, times on circuit and strip tell the tale of improvements being incrementally gained.

As far Ceramic Coat goes - one of my pre-requisites of my soon to be added/changed Cats Back is to have the mild steel pipes ceramic coated. Yuppers I believe it does make a difference.

PS
What size headers are you going? There are two choices on this matter too.

;)

[EQUIPE-T]

hey adam, paccies aside have you had a go at gonzo's?

the teacher of a coarse im doing has a VE SS ute was in roughly the same situation your in ( couldnt decide which one he wanted lol ) finially went with a pair of gonzo's using the same cats, he raves about them aparently highly recommened, and dam the ute sounds sexy now :D ( so might be worth checkin out? up to you man )

[Carbon]

Hi Adam

My first set of headers were Pacies - shorties. This was in the very early days when shops were still trying to build headers for VEs. All worked quite well on mine - I was going DiFillipo but they didn't have a set built in time for me.

As I understand it the shorties will help with the torque midrange aspect, and tuned length will assist at the mid to top end. Bottom line is that its much like a Cam - low/mod numbers will see gains in both Torque and Power, big end cams cut in much higher in the rev range and are great for improving big gains in HP figures - in my experience its always a trade off.. Thats why I'm trialling the ISKY Cam for Hi Torque, it's got huge lift in comparison to Comp Cams and others (not been in any of the Hi Torque cars to date and is new to the market) - should see a balance of low grunt and high end power in one package..

Whilst you may not do circuit or strip stuff, don't under-estimate that much of your drives are in the mid to high end rpm.

I gave away my original Ceramic Coated Pacemaker Shorties to Voodoo (Stu) a few mths ago.

I changed to tuned length headers when I changed over sorst system to a "Stainless" F1 (all my stuff to date has been through Mr Muffler Sumner Park)... For my application I would happily go Tuned length again - but then again I have upped the diff ratio from 2.92 up to 3.7, so launch and responsiveness is reasonably good and offsets some of the potential low/midrange sluggishness. ATM it spins, 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear with the power robbing Auto in tow- but thats with the recent gain of 60 odd rwkw power through the cam change.

I sincerely don't think you would even notice the difference between the two Header types. Unless you gain big HP, I personally find it hard to feel much variance, but the Dyno, times on circuit and strip tell the tale of improvements being incrementally gained.

PS
What size headers are you going? There are two choices on this matter too.

;)

Thanks for the informative right up Pete. I think unfortunately I am still confused.

If you look here.

http://pacemaker.com.au/holden_commodore_v8_ve.html

I was of the understanding that there is no point me doing anything more than the size of the exhaust. So, I have a 2.5" exhaust. Therefor I use 5377

I am not sure I understand your statement about our cruises either. Should I be concerned about the sizes I get?

As for different brands, there is a reason I am using Pacemaker and nothing else. That's it.

[CalaisRider]

Thanks for the informative right up Pete. I think unfortunately I am still confused.

If you look here.

http://pacemaker.com.au/holden_commodore_v8_ve.html

I was of the understanding that there is no point me doing anything more than the size of the exhaust. So, I have a 2.5" exhaust. Therefor I use 5377

I am not sure I understand your statement about our cruises either. Should I be concerned about the sizes I get?

As for different brands, there is a reason I am using Pacemaker and nothing else. That's it.

If your after power go forced induction as it's the cheapest power gain you will ever see. As for me, I'm Old School and just want a quick Normal Aspirated car

Nah mate. What you may or may not gain from sorst change is minimal. The sorst shops would have you believe different, but across my three years and four sorst changes - nup it ain't a big power gain, just contributes to the other power enghancers ya do.

[BigJim]

If it was me and my car i would go the following

1 7/8 Pacemaker 4 into 1 headers
3 inch 100 cell stainless core cats.

These work great on L98 motors. Dont go any smaller you will regret it.

The biggest restriction in the exhaust is the cats, so if you can get the best flow here it will make a huge difference.

[NZSHAKER]

If it was me and my car i would go the following

1 7/8 Pacemaker 4 into 1 headers
3 inch 100 cell stainless core cats.

These work great on L98 motors. Dont go any smaller you will regret it.

The biggest restriction in the exhaust is the cats, so if you can get the best flow here it will make a huge difference.

I would listen to this guy over most other people in this club....no matter how much money they have said they have spent on there car or how many shops they have been to trying to better the other shops......maybe thats why he has almost talked me in the FI club :)



EDIT Fark yea man my 1st post w00t w00t

[CalaisRider]

I would listen to this guy over most other people in this club....no matter how much money they have said they have spent on there car or how many shops they have been to trying to better the other shops......maybe thats why he has almost talked me in the FI club :)



EDIT Fark yea man my 1st post w00t w00t


:)

Yep at least we agree on something Chris - Big Jim certainly knows his stuff.

I take this opportunity to humbly thank him for his advice, support and guidance across the past 3 years. Yep the Calais has it's 3rd year birthday this month.

[keith reed]

most of us don,t have the luxury of being able to do a comparison of extractors on our own. in most cases we rely on the manufacturer and what they say. sams performance did a comprehensive test of a number of extractors. in all tests i have seen tri ys came out on top, not much in it though. have a look at advanced headers. they publish some of his results. another myth is mandrel bends

[pvk308]

for a motor making mild power tri-y's are the go for big hp 4-1 are the go however its more the primary pipe diameter your after. i agree with chris 1 7/8 primary definately but in a tri-ys have a better scavenging effect than 4-1 i know of big hp 355 strokers etc that are making 600+ and running tri-y's. another question whats the rest of the system consist of

[Carbon]

ok, so I got my extractors today. Chose the longer tri-y's. The ones that are a cross between the 4 into 1's and the standard length. It basically came down to a extra cost issue

These ones finish at the same point as the 4 into 1's so I need new cats.

So, I had already decided I was going to get the 200 cpi cats but when I asked for a quote today for fitting from a company, they said the 200's were illegal. Now I know the 100's are but wasn't sure about the 200's.

My question is will the fitter refuse to install the 200's or can I tell him which ones to put on.

Someone please explain to me how this part works. If I buy cats prior can the fitter refuse? It's not that they said they wouldn't the just said

Also, the 200 cell cats are not street legal for the VE's as need to comply with the latest emmisions rulings